Brand and Ross

Lucifer_666 · Brand and Ross

I know most Flickers here are not the biggest Jonathan Ross fans so I'm not expecting many to agree with me but I really do feel there has been a real storm in a teacup made about all of this
Yes the two in question went too far, but they have apologised and the victim has accepted that but that doesn't seem enough for the media who seem hell bent on making this into a world wide incident??

What I find amazing is that Brand's radio show attracts about 400,000 listeners on a Saturday night after the watershed and after this incident they got two complaints relating more to Ross Swearing than to the content of any phone call ...however when it started going up the news agendas these complaints increase and now its gone to a crazy number of 28,000 all disgusted about how they treated Andrew Sachs??

I also think people are jumping the gun too with their assessments aswell..I heard many who complained saying "how could they leave a phone message for a poor old man like that" but I'm not intirely sure that Sachs actually recieved those mesages I'm starting to believe that Brand and Ross just used his voice that appeared on his answering machine to give the impression that they were actually leaving the messages...I say this because how Andrew Sachs found out about this...it was through his Agent who got a phone call from a paper looking for a quote relating to the radio prank...it was then that both his Agent and Sachs listened to an online recording of the show and got offended by it...now maybe they did leave messages? What I'm getting at is that none of us know for sure yet and everyone seems to prejudging and condemning.

Another thing that has seriously peeved me off in all of this is the political crowds involvement....in the midst of the greatest financial crisis the western world has ever seen with recession looming we have the Prime Minister and the Opposition Leader all coming out getting involved in this...surely they have better things to do and should get on with it...Pure opportunism if you ask me

In my opinion Ross and Brand should have gotten a stern warning..they know they went too far themselves and in my opinion that should be the end of it but no we now have Brand having to resign and all Ross' shows suspended...great... now what to watch on a Friday Night?

Of course the BBC management that let the piece out should also be in the firing line however I do feel sorry a bit for him too as it is a thin line

Which leads me to bring up this further more expansive debate on humour and what people consider funny because quite frankly there is alot of comedians out there today that have a similar cruel sense of humour....the question is ..Is it cruel or funny?? Are we going to end up with shows like 'Have I got News for You' being seriously edited or eventually cancelled?
Is that show and shows like it cruel?

Anyway here's the incident itself...judge for yourselves....do they deserve to be sacked??

Catnapper

It's a strange one.....when I first read about it, I thought they'd phoned Andrew Sachs live on the show and left offensive messages and made untrue comments about his grandaughter. But now it seems that segment of the show was pre-recorded and Andrew Sachs asked for it to be re-recorded.....I think he was told the offensive parts would be cut before being broadcast, so does that mean he'd heard the messages at that point? It's also true that Russell Brand did sleep with his grandaughter after all......but Ross shouldn't have said anything about it and Brand shouldn't have gone along with it......

The production crew on Brand's show were wrong for letting the messages be broadcast without editing.....sure Brand and Ross acted like smutty schoolboys egging each other on but someone in charge should have stopped them going too far.

As for politicians getting involved, the BBC is funded by the public so Brown and Cameron would be sure to be asked about it by journalists and they'd have to be seen to disapprove of Ross and Brand. I'm hoping the story dies down now.....Brand's already said he's off to America to make films and Ross will keep a low profile for a while before being allowed back to do his shows.....I can't see the BBC sacking him and Andrew Sachs hasn't asked for him to be sacked either.

Emperor Morphetine

A cooling off period is probably the right option for all parties really.

Lucifer_666

Whats quite annoying too from all this is that Andrew Sachs didn't seem that bothered and has clearly said he will not be bringing the matter any further but his Grandaughter seems to be really using this now to springboard herself up in the celebrity status..she is making deals with the Sun saying things like they are considering talking to police to get charges of nuisance phone calls unto the two..like this is not a shy girl who got suddenly sprung into the limelight this is a performer with the burlesque troupe 'the Satanic Sluts'

These girls perform as a gothic entertainment group that promises “cheerleader massacre, voodoo sacrifice, vampire brutality and much much more”. She's also a model and aspiring actress ...apparently in her site her interests include Alcohol and lingerie .....Now does she sound like someone who would get so upset by this?? Or does she sound like she is milking it for all its worth?? I really feel its the latter...

As for the politicians....If it was just them answering journalists questions about that one thing that would be fine but did you hear today that the Conservative party want to have a full House of Commons debate on this issue ....and like I said in my first post we are more or less in a massive recession..people worried about making ends meet this side of Xmas and this is what the political elite want to talk about

its crazy

I do think your both right though about keeping low profiles and a cooling off period being good....
I just think this is something that has been really squeezed out of something small and made into a huge thing by the media and alot of it is because of jealousy or annoyance at Ross high wages and at the BBC who are very much a target

Catnapper

I think his grandaughter was horrified that it all came out about her having slept with Brand and was probably upset about her grandad finding out about it in such a public way........but I think you're right Luc about her milking it out and maybe getting publicity. She said Andrew Sachs was distraught about it all, so you'd think she'd let things be, especially since Brand and Ross have been reprimanded and pulled to pieces by the media. Sachs has accepted their apologies and been gracious about it all so it should be allowed to die down now.

They're having a Commons debate......that's typical of politicians seizing on something now the public have expressed their feelings so much. Most of the time, politicians ignore public opinion!

I see Ross is suspended for 12 weeks without pay but he's still down to host the Comedy Awards on ITV in a few weeks time. I wonder if ITV are hoping the fuss dies down before then? One thing's for sure though, if he does present at the Awards with all those comedians there....he'll be treated like a hero!

Lucifer_666

I'd understand her being horrified babe if she was a normal every day girl or shy but this is a one who is involved in pretty out there stuff....she is apparently also a dominatrix and charges for the fettish..... she has pictures and videos of herself all over the net in this kind of gear so she was hardly hiding it from Grandpa Sachs ....but we are now having to accept that all of a sudden that she was horrified that her fling with Brand was brought out into the light and the effect it would have with her family relationship

It just doesn't wash with me

As for Ross he has now pulled out of the Comedy Awards too

which is unfortunate as he has done it every year since it began and was always good doing it...but its probably the right move because the media would have attacked him again for doing it in December during his BBC ban...

I really feel alot of the media went too far with this and it became more of a witch hunt than anything else...I agreed with Jimmy Carr when he said to some journalists "Its being completely blown out of all proportion" ... and I laughed you could hear a female reporter answering him saying "Yes it has" and he turns back,..laughs and says "Sure your with them as part of the problem"

JohnG

I am quite puzzled by the magnitude of this incident. Okay i will admit that, after listening to the broadcast, if it was genuinly left on Sach's answer phone, they were out of order (like a couple of sugared up kids playing a phone prank - which we've all done). But they have apologised and Andrew Sachs has accepted that apology and seems to want to forget all about it; but the tabloids don't want that... they want to drag it out and wring it 'till it's dry. The tabloids cornered Sachs, and seemed to pin him to a wall just so they could get a response. The media want so much to vilify popular celebrities in order to sell their wares that they will bleed dry a story that, let's face it, if noone had taken notice by monday morning we'd have had posh spice's latest tattoo on pages 2,3,4,5,6&7.

I like Russell Brand and Jonathon Ross, I think they are funny, comedic and personable. Russell Brand in particular is a comedian who, in the same vein as Billy Connelly, doesn't rely on scripted comedy, and in that sense may, occasionally, say stuff that offends certain people (think of Connelly's Ken Bigely joke). But they are not as vicious or mean-spirited as someone like Bernard Manning (his bigoted and racist bile was scripted and learnt).

The tabloid press are, in my mind, responsible for this debacle. They don't like Ross or Brand so, like a pack of hyenas, are tearing away at the corpse of the issue, refusing to let it die. The result: suspensions, resignations, Andrew Sachs being hounded by the s**t stains who write about how hard he's finding all this, and, excuse me if I'm being cynical, but the girl in question 'Georgina' is milking the whole thing and selling kiss and tell stories to a newspaper who are taking the moral highground about the whole incident... explain to me why I should take umbrage with this intrusion into your privacy whilst you pose semi naked with a whip.

A young family man died in Afghanistan last week... nuff said

Catnapper

If Brand's show was on Radio 1 and they'd have left messages on an answer phone belonging to someone like say Chris Moyles, nothing would have been said about it......and he'd have probably said rude things about them too on his show! But because it was Radio 2......a channel that's usually seen as being a middle of the road channel.....and a 78 year old was on the receiving end of the joke calls, that's why there's been so much fuss.

Even though Brand's show only had 1 or 2 complaints originally, once the media latched on to the story everyone was out to get Brand and Ross. I like Ross...he's very quick witted and can be funny (I even sometimes listen to his Radio 2 show!) but sometimes he does take things too far, especially on his Friday Night Show when he says crude things to his guests. They've been punished and even the Radio 2 controller has resigned, so hopefully everything will die down soon and the media will start reporting on things that really matter.

Emperor Morphetine

I would honestly feel more aggrieved by it had the lady concerned actually been entirely genuine and wanting to protect Andrew Sachs's feelings but having read more into it all she doesn't exactly seem a maiden of virtue....

. I mean, selling her soul to the tabloids suggests she isn't all that bothered by it for the sake of easy self-promotion- call me a cynic but something tells me it was all a big setup!

Lucifer_666

I like Ross on his friday show and remember he's loved and was hired exactly becasue he does push the limits in comedy....though in fairness to him generally I think he does it with alot of charm and in my opinion doesn't come across bad at all

As for Brand's slot on Radio 2....it generally has a young audience who are well used to this kind of stuff...thats the reason why there was only two complaints for bad language originally.... and you can bet your life that most of those that have complained or are so offended have never even heard the broadcast in the first place...instead they have judged from what they have read in tabloids

I agree about this woman aswell......It smells of real set up aswell...and there is apparently some confusion of consent from Sachs over the phone for this prank to go ahead...he says that he couldn't hear the phone call properly

either way his niece is definitely milking it for all its worth and so are these 'Satanic Sluts'

I also agree about there being more worthy news that should be occupying the news services like we are in the midst of the biggest financial crisis ever....and two wars are all going on

Catnapper

Even Prince Charles is joining in now

He's apparently delighted that Ross won't be hosting the Royal Variety show he and Camilla are going to....and he's happy Jimmy Tarbuck will be hosting it instead. Prince Charles wasn't happy Ross would still be hosting even though he's been suspended by the BBC.

I'm glad you said about Sachs not hearing the phone call properly Luc.......I thought I'd read when all this fuss started that Sachs had agreed to be on the show. At the time I wondered why he agreed to it knowing how Ross and Brand are at times, but if he hadn't understood properly what was going to happen then that explains why he might have agreed to it.

In another story, the Satanic Sluts did a show the other night where they only had about 30 people in the audience...and no one clapped! So all the publicity isn't helping Andrew Sachs grandaughter!

Lucifer_666

My God of all people to complain about them ....Prince Charles should watch what he says himself half the time or perhaps he should be more forthright with his opinion when his father goes and says something again insulting to some foreigner...in other words .....but out princey!!!!

As for the Sachs phone call...that is not what I mean't babe though of course what you say is also a possibility as I am not sure exactly what happened but what I do think went on was that he did agree to come on to the Brand show but then cancelled and they had phoned him to get permission to use the phone message thing that they had done and there was confusion on that phone call and what he could hear and consented too

I read that about the sluts too

there is a God

Did you see the Sun headline 'Brand Gig Swipe at Georgina' the whole article was just another way to bring up the incident again where they again mention what happened criticall on the two comedians and advertise the grandaughters Satanic Sluts

Only then actually mentioning what brand said at the gig
He told the mainly American audience: “Burlesque and erotica – I’ve been rethinking it of late”
AND THAT WAS IT!!! The Sun got a whole story where they could bring it all up again and advertise the Sluts out of that

I don't know how they get away with it

Catnapper

Would you believe it....now Channel 5 are screening a documentary about it! Talk about spinning it out

Yeah I read what Brand said to the US audience and I laughed at his "Burlesque and erotica - I've been rethinking it of late"

I doubt if he's all that bothered about the fuss....he'll carry on making films and doing shows. I think it'll affect Ross more....people have been queueing up to have a go at him and the huge salary he gets.

Lucifer_666

I have never seen such a meal made about something so insignificant...why can't it just be let drop now

Oh yeah Brand doesn't care now he's making his way in the States and still has his core young audience still here...I don'tr think it bothers him.....I do agree with you too about Ross I think it effects him more and I do worry whether he will feel that he can just come back like nothing happened when the ban is over

I keep getting the impression that perhaps he may now leave the BBC ...well whenever his contract is up ...which would be a shame because he's exellent...not that I know all the channels will be jumping over themselves to get him if he does

Catnapper

Ross definitely wouldn't be short of a job! The BBC have said they want him back but it's whether he'd want to come back to them after all the fuss? He might be a bit subdued when he does come back......he'll be wondering what he can or can't say in case of more complaints but he'll be back to his wise cracking best before long!

The C5 docu's on tonight at 10pm.....Georgina Baillie's apparently said she was very angry when she said they should be sacked and now she wants them reinstated and that the world would be "a very sad, dull place" without them.

Jipdog

A documentary? Please. It was stretching it over 5 pages for 1 day let alone how many it has run for, never mind a program for an hour and 5 minutes! How are the y padding that out? Constantly replaying the voice messages in slow motion?

Catnapper

She's had her few minutes of fame so hopefully she'll keep quiet about it now. I had to laugh at the end of the documentary when someone said it could all have been avoided if Andrew Sachs had picked up the phone

The BBC have suspended Ross for 12 weeks and banned him from making his shows or appearing on other progs.....but they've let him film a celebrity version of The Apprentice for Comic Relief! They said they "don't want to disadvantage the charity."

Lucifer_666

Oh brilliant so he'll be on that ....I did hear that he was doing it ...in fact I think he was cornered about it on his friday night show and agreed there

I missed the docu

I'll try and see a repeat

They probably did an analysis of each star before the event Jip discussing their trends on doing similar things before..the usual crap to stretch out a docu

Did they talk to Georgina babe??

As for the last comment..they are right

Catnapper

Ross didn't get paid for his appearance and it was all for charity so I suppose that's why they let him go ahead with it. I wonder if he made any comments about what's been going on?

I taped the docu, noticed it was nearly 11pm and stopped the recording.....then I remembered the prog went on for another few minutes

So I watched the last few minutes but I haven't seen the rest of it yet! But yeah, they talked to her Luc....and showed The Satanic Sluts on stage!

Lucifer_666

I doubt he will refer to it at all but it will be good to see him on telly and still willing to do it

Another advertisement for them Sluts by the sound of it..not that they sound absoluitely awful by all reports

Catnapper

They looked terrible too Luc

They looked amateurish from the clips I saw of them!.......not that I've ever seen those kind of shows before

Lucifer_666

Oh I think somebody has slightly given themselves away there

Catnapper

and somebody's reading too much into what somebody else says

Lucifer_666

Am ? Am I? .....AM I?

Catnapper

Yes you are

Terry Wogan's commented about Jonathan Ross's salary and said "Don't criticise him for taking the money, because all of us would." He's got a point......people might say Ross is paid too much but if they were offered £18 million for 3 years work I bet they wouldn't refuse it!

Lucifer_666

I'll take your word for it ...for now.

.. but your still under investigation

Yep Wogan is absolutely correct...any entertainer would take that money so its a bot unfair to be criticising Ross for doing so like could you really see somebody saying..."No..please give me less money"

Catnapper

I think you've given yourself away there too Luc

......"a bot unfair"

...why, did you see the Satanic Sluts routine?!!

Lucifer_666

Hey that isn't given myself away babe...I think everyone sort of expects me to see and experience these things

though...I would just like to think that people would believe I would see more professional devil worshipping s&m butts

Lucifer_666

I see Brand was clarifying further on the incident and the phone call to Sachs to get permission to air it

BBC Quote
Comedian Russell Brand has said his infamous broadcast with Jonathan Ross was toned down to take out the "more personal stuff" before it went on air.

The pair caused huge controversy when listeners to Brand's BBC Radio 2 show heard them leaving obscene answer phone messages for the actor Andrew Sachs.

But Brand has revealed the worst bits were cut out before the broadcast.

He told The Observer he believed Mr Sachs had agreed to let the show go out if they toned it down, which they did.

"We were told that Andrew Sachs had okayed it," Brand told the paper.

"The grey area is that our brilliant young producer Nic Philps called Andrew Sachs afterwards and said: 'Is it OK, can we use it, do you mind?'

"And he said: 'Oh yeah, but can you tone it down a bit?' So we did. We took out the more personal stuff."

Brand did not give further details of the material that was edited out.

Mr Sachs has said he spoke to the producer before the pre-recorded show went on air, and told him he was unhappy with the hosts' comments.

The producer asked if Mr Sachs could do an interview the following week instead, the Fawlty Towers star said. He agreed, believing the original material would not be used.

Brand told the Observer there was "no malicious intent".

"What's difficult about the whole thing is that it was completely devoid of malice, and there's been a retrospective application of cruelty and intention to cause offence," he said.

He accepted that it could be difficult for producers to keep "big egos" like him and Ross under control, but that the stars took "complete responsibility".

He added that it he would not let it change his style of comedy, saying: "Despite how huge the fuss is, essentially it's meaningless."

The broadcast attracted 42,000 complaints and led to the resignations of Radio 2 controller Lesley Douglas and the station's head of specialist music and compliance, David Barber.

It also prompted Brand to quit the BBC, while Ross is suspended without pay for three months.

Meanwhile, senior politicians and BBC figures have called for curbs on potentially offensive comedy and star salaries.

Brand and Ross made a series of offensive calls to Sachs, 78, which included obscene comments about the actor's 23-year-old granddaughter, Georgina Baillie.

On Saturday, Radio 2 broadcast two apologies. The corporation had to amend the wording for the second airing after a complaint by Mr Sachs.

The first went out at 1003 GMT, when Ross's show would have gone out, and a fuller version was broadcast again at 2113 GMT during Brand's former slot.

The first said: "On 18 October, the BBC broadcast an exchange between Russell Brand and Jonathan Ross on the Russell Brand Show on Radio 2.

"This concerned the actor Andrew Sachs and his granddaughter Georgina Baillie.

"Some of this exchange was left on the voicemail of Mr Sachs.

"The conversation was grossly offensive and an unacceptable intrusion into the private lives of both Mr Sachs and Ms Baillie.

"It was a serious breach of editorial standards, and should never have been recorded or broadcast.

"The BBC would like to apologise unreservedly to Mr Sachs, Ms Baillie and to our audiences as licence fee payers."

This was later amended after Mr Sachs contacted the BBC to say the apology should also mention his wife and family.

For the second broadcast, the last sentence was changed to: "The BBC would like to apologise unreservedly to Mr and Mrs Sachs, Ms Baillie and their family, and to our audiences as licence fee payers."

A BBC spokesman said: "Mr Sachs asked us to specifically include mention of his wife and family in the second broadcast apology... and we were happy to do this."

Catnapper

Brand and Ross should never have made any offensive remarks on the phone calls but, going off what Brand said, it's all been a misunderstanding. If Andrew Sachs asked for the offensive stuff to be taken out before broadcast, that suggests he'd heard the comments but hadn't complained officially to the BBC about them and even gave permission for the calls to be broadcast after editing.

The producer asked permission from Sachs and Sachs agreed to appear on the show the following week......so that doesn't sound like he was upset? So is it all about an elderly man getting confused about what he agreed to or is it because his grandaughter got involved?

Lucifer_666

It definitely does sound more like a misunderstanding that the media took and made a much bigger deal of ...It looks like he knew what they were doing before it aired but was confused on exact details of what will be aired and what wouldn't.....its a fair difference than what the media where relating...that this was a sudden attack and prank just left on his phone out of the blue...its just unfortunate that it was let be this massive thing that has effected careers now...for me the media have alot to answer for

Catnapper

The plot thickens.....Ross told a Sunday newspaper that he'd asked for the offensive material to be edited out before broadcasting. If it's true, he could have a good case for being reinstated and getting his money back....it could end up in court.

Lucifer_666

ohhh that would definitely alter things alright if what that paper says is true...your right too about it giving him a great case aswell

Catnapper

I can see it dragging on for a few more months, especially if he takes the BBC to court. It's interesting though how Ross and Brand have been punished, two Radio 2 bosses have resigned, but nothing's really been done or said about the producer of Brand's show?

Lucifer_666

I can't see Ross taking the BBC to court...I think he'd rather just cut away from them....which may happen!!...However I do believe he gets on very well with the BBC bosses and they may be promising behind the scenes that he very much remains a big part of the BBC future

That is strange about the Radio show producer not getting reprimanded aswell??

Catnapper

I don't think he'd leave the BBC cause he has his tv shows and his Radio 2 show which are all popular, so I can't see him giving those up.

It could be that the producer didn't do anything wrong if he'd already edited out some material like Andrew Sachs asked him to? If he was under the impression that Sachs was ok with the other material being broadcast then the BBC might let him off any punishment?

big aundy

bbc should have sacked them both

Catnapper

The BBC must be happy enough with the producer if nothing's been done about him....I haven't even read he's been reprimanded either, unless things have been said to him that haven't been made public?

big aundy

they must know ross will bring in the viewers or they would have sacked him

Catnapper

It makes you wonder what would have happened to Brand if he hadn't resigned....would he have been on suspension like Ross or would he have been sacked?

Lucifer_666

I think there would have been much more restrictions on Brand's show had he stayed to the point of where it would have been impossible for him to stay which is why I reckon he left early

Catnapper

Did you see Ross and Brand are up for awards at the Comedy Awards show?! What's the betting they'll win?!

Lucifer_666

I hope they do...particularly Ross..but you know i could see booing occuring either

Catnapper

I doubt they'd boo Luc.....most of the celebs would be on his side anyway I'd have thought? It's surprising who's sticking up for Ross though...Sir David Attenborough said he was doing his job and that the producer should have stopped the calls. Mind you, hasn't Attenborough appeared on Ross's show before now?!

Lucifer_666

Funny I agree with Attenborough I defiinitely feel that the Producer was more at fault than the comedians who lets face it where hired to push it a bit and that is the producers job after all .... Also when you hear that Ross wanted the calls cut out too....the producer really should have been all over that

Catnapper

Yeah I'd have thought it was all down to the producer to keep control over everything that's why I'm surprised nothing's been said about him. But he did edit some of the calls like Andrew Sachs wanted him to do so I think the producer probably thought Sachs was ok about the rest of the calls?

Lucifer_666

yep me too Cat i thought there would be much more about him though there still might be as some other crowd are still making up a report so apparently its still not the end of it unfortunately

Catnapper

They're saying now that Ross could even be sacked

Apparently MPs are angry that the BBC gave out the the date of Ross's return before the investigation was even finished.

Lucifer_666

yep i heard that alright..i still can't see that happening though...i can see Ross leaving first ...i think this has dragged on far too much now...it should be let go now...but these mps think they are getting brownie points by going after this now

Catnapper

The BBC Trust is releasing its report today so we might get to hear if Ross is being sacked or not....I hope he isn't cause he tried to stop the calls being broadcast.

UPDATE.....I just read he won't be sacked and his job is safe. The Trust said the right course of action was taken by suspending him but they did call for tighter measures when high risk performers do shows. Meanwhile, Andrew Sachs wife has said they're tired of it all....so hopefully all the fuss will die down now.

Lucifer_666

yep i heard that alright babe ..they apparently cut just short from declaring Ross a victim too

well so ITV News was saying

i do think they have a point though because its not really Ross' job to protect the integrity of the BBC unless he is doing something live for them...when its recorded it should be down to producers and editors

hopefully this will be the end of it now

Catnapper

Ross wants Sachs to be his first guest when the show returns so he can apologise to him. Sachs said he'd go on the show........if his wife agrees!

Lucifer_666

It would be good to get him alright and would also give the oportunity for Ross to continue really where he left of in a way....if Sachs lets him take the mickey a little ...which if he goes on I'm sure he will...it will give the clearest impresssion that the whole incident now is behind them and that Sachs has no real problem with the majority of the cheeky humour that is used by Ross and by so many other comedians and presenters out there

Catnapper

Yeah I think he'd go on the show to draw a line under the whole matter. Ross would say sorry and they'd probably have a chat about Sachs career and be laughing and joking by the end of the show!

Lucifer_666

Sounds like the plan babe

Catnapper

It's a cunning plan to get Ross back in everybody's good books!

Lucifer_666

Yippee

RP

tickets go on sale tomorrow for Russel Brand in Bournemouth, im defo going to get some.

Catnapper

When's that for Red cause I thought he was busy doing films now?

Lucifer_666

oh very good... the incident mustn't have effected his popularity here that much